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parker jameson
Aug 17, 2017

Model steam engine paint

13 comments

Hi i am over in the USA and i was wondering if anyone knows where i can get an enamel paint the same color as stuart green.

Thanks

Charlotte Appleton
Aug 18, 2017

Hi Parker,

 

You have two options.

1) Contact Stuart Models at www.stuartmodels.com

 

2) If you want to use the shade of green that my Dad uses on his Stuart 5A Steam Engine you can get this from Blackgates Engineering at www.blackgates.co.uk.

 

Both companies do worldwide mail order.

 

Thanks for your question and I hope you find the perfect paint!

 

Charlotte

Tim from Boston
Aug 18, 2017

Part of the challenge is that Stuart Models specifically states that they won't ship paint outside of the EU. I'm in the same boat and what I did was to to search for a dealer for Testor's Model Master enamel gloss paint. I order 1/2 oz. sizes of every green color they had in gloss. I'll see how it works out

parker jameson
Aug 18, 2017

Thanks for the info. I found that rust oleum has an enamel paint called gloss hunter green and it matches pretty close to the same color. It's just a little lighter so I mixed in some black and I looks great.

parker jameson
Aug 20, 2017

Yes I have used humbrol paint before and some of there colors just don't cover well at all. Maybe I just got a bad batch of paint.

mac94001
Aug 21, 2017Edited: Aug 21, 2017

Due to IATA (International Air Transport Association) regulations, TDG (Transportation of Dangerous Goods) regulations and WHIMIS (Workplace Hazardous Information) regulatios both Stuarts and Blackgates cannot ship oil products and paint to North America. In North America look at Joh Deer "Classic Green" for John Deer equipment manufactured before 1989. This is a dark green metal paint.

parker jameson
Aug 21, 2017

Awesome I will look into that.

ray.soltra
Aug 22, 2017

Hi Charlotte,

 

I hope this is what Keith intended when you started this much needed website?

 

I posted a lengthy reply on the subject of Stuart Green on another Forum, I have updated and posted it below. Everything that has been said on this thread is correct specifically the IATA rules on paint carriage. If you read this post you may understand part of the history of this Green paint. My advice to Parker is find a local car body repair shop with experience of old European cars, they might be able to mix paint to international recognised standards for him.

 

Here is a summary of the Stuart livery for you.

 

I own a collection of the original photographs from the Stuart catalogues, they date from around 1906. Unsurprisingly, these are all black and white but they have been retouched to emphasis the polished metalwork, really nice work. These were the standard photographs used in the catalogues and in Model Engineer magazine for many years.

 

The first colour catalogue published by Stuarts was September 1983, a mixture of colour and B&W photos were used throughout. These photographs show a mixture of livery, some are green all over and some are green with a black boxbed. Even in the B&W photos it is possible to see the contrasting colours.

 

Looking back through the older catalogues, very few complete engines were offered as painted, The No 4 with Avery Dynamo specifically states it is enamelled in green. The BB with Bottone Dynamo was offered as a complete engine finished in green - a completely different green very light (probably GPO electrical plant green). The S50 was all black for many years, it was dipped black enamel.

 

So my understanding is where a complete engine was offered as painted, that’s exactly what you got and possibly painted in whatever paint was available. If it wasn’t stated you end up with an unpainted engine which you could paint any colour you wanted to!

 

Stuart’s evolved as a business and very early in their history started to move away from just model steam engines. Just about everything (non model engines) I have seen produced by them, charging sets, marine engines etc appears to be painted in green. I have no doubt the “green” varied depending on the customer preference, the old War Department probably specified a shade of olive drab (see the Firefly Charging set) - the basic colour a military things for years, the GPO (well before BT) probably specified a lighter green which was their standard colour at the time.

 

There was an urban myth on another forum, which may or may not be true, that Stuarts varied the shade of the green paint to identify who worked on a specific engine, perhaps as an early version of quality control? Engine returned for repair and they could identify who built it. I am not convinced, the bigger items, charging sets or marine engines etc, would be identified by serial number.

 

Perhaps, the myth is correct in some part. The paint varied in shade for a number of reasons including availability, usage, environmental and supplier.

 

The earliest catalogue reference I can find to a Paint Set is 1995/96, two small tins with Black and Stuart Green high quality steam proof enamel paint.

 

First off, there is no recognised British Standard (BS) or International Standard (RAL) for “Stuart Green”. Looking at the website of, and discussing this with, a professional paint supplier - Paragon Paint - supports this view. Although Paragon now provide Stuart Green it does not appear to be a standardised colour, either way their website is worth a visit!

 

My experience after having used numerous tins of “Stuart Green” over many years shows the shade varies. All paints stirred and used according to usual practices and painted on to prepared and primed surfaces, yes the shades vary. Quite possibly a supplier issue and not using a recognised, codified, colour.

 

I have even gone to the lengths of having engines professionally sprayed by a high quality vintage car restorer using state of the art paint matching technology. My brother in law worked there. Put the engines against other “Stuart Green” engines and, you have got it, there are shade variations!

 

Whichever way I have looked at this, I have not been able to consistently paint engines in a standard “Stuart Green”.

 

It is personal preference and, in my case all green or green and black, perhaps a touch of red flywheel suits me fine.

 

I have tried various suppliers, Humbrol Brunswick Green is too dark (for my tastes)  and some of the Precision Paints range are passable.

 

So after a lot of time and trial and error I have chosen the most suitable green for me, lots of colour matching and umming and arhhing involved. I am now using Light Bronze Green BS381C 225 as it provides consistency, it is cost effective (500ml tins) and is about the closest I can get to a consistent “Stuart Green”

 

The big advantages of using a codified colour (BS or RAL or other standard) makes the colour repeatable between batches and easier to acquire locally from a professional supplier.

 

One final point. Many years ago I had the pleasure of talking model steam engines with John Bertinat (then frail but very sharp mind) for several hours. Through an introduction from Stuarts he was commissioned to make a number of Stuart engines by an American steel magnate, Jerome Greenbaum. The specified livery was light blue/grey (Greenbaum’s company livery) this did not rest well with John and even many years after delivery he was still chuntering about it. He was firmly convinced the only liveries for Stuart engines was green or green and black. Coming from a highly regarded model engineer, that was good enough for me!

 

Hope that helps you

 

Ray

parker jameson
Aug 22, 2017

Thanks Ray, that was helpful and very interesting.

Charlotte Appleton
Aug 22, 2017

A very detailed post Ray, thanks for taking the time to post that, very interesting!

Patrick Whitehead
Sep 9, 2017

Hey Parker. It was good to meet another American Stuart enthusiast and it was especially encouraging to see that young people are actually interested in this sort of thing. I very much enjoyed enjoyed looking at your models and talking with you at Thresharee. More to the point, I've thought about this as well, and I've decided that British Racing Green is the shade I'll be using when the time comes to paint my victoria (I'll be ordering it from Stuart next week, most likely.

parker jameson
Oct 23, 2017

Hi Patrick,

Sorry I haven't been on the forum in a while. That seems like a good color, you will have to post some pics of the project later on.

Stuart Evans
Nov 7, 2017Edited: Nov 8, 2017

This Stuart Turner was built by the late great model engineer John Bertinat i have a few of his steam engines bought from eBay when part of his collection was sold on eBay some six or seven years ago now i have one of John Bertinats Stuart Turner 5A's built to an exemplary standard and is superbly engineered with a mechanical lubricator and a gear driven boiler feed pump fitted to it's own dedicated base casting.

 

New Posts
  • CastingIronEngines
    May 13

    I saw a photo of a green twin oscillating steam engine on the Preston Services website a few years ago, and a Canadian buddy of mine challenged me to make one. Long story short, I built a foundry, used a 3D modeling program to model the engine using 3 photos, made the patterns, and cast the parts for a 60% scale engine. I recently got the engine running, and it can be viewed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxIZ4iuhLyM The plan at this point is to finish the painting work on the engine, and publish it in Live Steam and Outdoor Railroading magazine. It was a long journey to learn the foundry work, but I was able to cast some of the parts in gray iron, with the remainder being cast in 356 aluminum.
  • J. Meaney
    May 28

    I recently acquired a Stuart Turner 3MTB stationary engine. Unfortunately the slide valve and ancillary parts are missing. does any have or know where I could get drawing of these parts. I have contacted Stuart Turner who no longer have any of the old drawings or parts. Below is a top view of the valve chest. Any assistance would be appreciated.
  • jatolton
    Sep 6, 2018

    Hello everyone... my name is Jason and I am from Northern Ontario. I recently purchased some steam engines from an estate sale and there is one that is rather interesting. It looks like a Stuart S50 model like right down to the nuts and bolt pattern on the valve cover.... although the crank web on mine is bell shaped where on the early Stuart S50 it is round. The people at Stuart in the UK think it is a 40's ish model based on the photos. I questioned mine because it does not have the Stuart nameplate on the top of the base... where it is located on engine. They sent me a picture of an old model without the Stuart sign on the top of the base but at the bottom instead. The people in the UK say that picture has the Stuart sign on it is photo shopped and there is really not one on it at all. On the pictures of my engine I have put a gold ring on where the Stuart sign is normally. I have never seen a knock-off anywhere online. Opinions are certainly appreciated. Stuart thinks I have the real deal.... and possibly a gem. Any thoughts on the engine? condition, authenticity, value? Thanks so much, Sincerely, Jason.